Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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jayhova
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by jayhova »

I am curious. How hard would it be to modify the current DFU code so it could fit an area 32 times the current map size? It would also be necessary to redefine the direction of north. Or perhaps I should say east as the orientation of the map would change.

I was thinking one could define all of Tamriel outside of Daggerfall as a flat plain just above sea level.
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Arneb
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by Arneb »

Just to modify the DFU code to allow it? Not too hard, but it would require a fork, since the size of the actual map is hardcoded.
Then, it would be required to take all the different layers of the map (WOODS.WLD, POLITIC.PAK, CLIMATE.PAK...) and rotate those 45° degrees counterclockwise, approximating their position compared to every other location.
A new map would be needed, maybe one generated by the terrain itself instead of being pre-drawed as it is now, at least in the beginning.

I forgot a lot of stuff for sure, but all this would be needed just to have a blank slab to build on.

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jayhova
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by jayhova »

My notion is that you could paste the iliac bay onto a blank version of Tamriel. Instead of worrying about the rest of it. Basically, just make it so there is no edge of the map until you are in the ocean. One of the problems I just considered would be that you would have to translate the entire coordinate system to work with a reoriented map.
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Arneb
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by Arneb »

I’m planning to start this project as soon as I reach a satisfying point in the one I’m working on.
I’d like to start recreating a Tamriel map using only Daggerfall assets. So yep, Morrowind with standard High Rock cities and Bretons villagers in their streets, Valenwood just set as (haunted?) woodlands, Elsweyr and Black Marsh with no kahjiiti or argonians around…
So what’s the point? Well, there are two points, actually: first, to check if it’s at all possible; second, to give a sort of blank canvas for anyone that will feel like building on it.

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Werewolf
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by Werewolf »

Arneb wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:43 am I’m planning to start this project as soon as I reach a satisfying point in the one I’m working on.
I’d like to start recreating a Tamriel map using only Daggerfall assets. So yep, Morrowind with standard High Rock cities and Bretons villagers in their streets, Valenwood just set as (haunted?) woodlands, Elsweyr and Black Marsh with no kahjiiti or argonians around…
So what’s the point? Well, there are two points, actually: first, to check if it’s at all possible; second, to give a sort of blank canvas for anyone that will feel like building on it.
That’s a great idea. Start off with making extremely barebones implementations of the rest of Tamriel as a canvas for more detailed versions. Similar to how Daggerfall Unity itself is a template for better versions of Daggerfall simply by being a port of Daggerfall to the Unity engine. Providing a canvas to be built on is the way towards success

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jayhova
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by jayhova »

One of the big questions is 'how do you remap everything?'. Also north is not north in Daggerfall. However, that seems more an issue with Daggerfall than anything else. Everything in Daggerfall needs to rotate 30° then it will need to be positioned on the map. This means all the coordinates in the game will need to be changed. However, the way north works may or may not be addressed. Cities will be positioned differently because they orient
along the cardinal directions. I don't imagine that will be much of an issue.
Last edited by jayhova on Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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11th_defender
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by 11th_defender »

jayhova wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:11 am I did the math. I resized a map of Tamiel so that a 1000 x 500 map of Daggerfall lined up giving me a size for the whole of the continent at Daggerfall's scale. 4600 x 3300. This means that to do the whole of Tamriel in DFU it would need to handle a map approximately 32 times the current size.

Image
Haven't been on the forums for a while, sorry for the late reply(2 months lol). 32 times the size is quite big.

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jayhova
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by jayhova »

11th_defender wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:34 pm Haven't been on the forums for a while, sorry for the late reply(2 months lol). 32 times the size is quite big.
An area 32 times the size of a game from '96 is pretty unspectacular considering that current machines are over well over 1000 times more powerful in almost every dimension.
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Arneb
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by Arneb »

jayhova wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:42 pm One of the big questions is 'how do you remap everything?'. Also north is not north in Daggerfall. However, that seems more an issue with Daggerfall than anything else. Everything in Daggerfall needs to rotate 30° then it will need to be positioned on the map. This means all the coordinates in the game will need to be changed. However, the way north works may or may not be addressed. Cities will be positioned differently because they orient
along the cardinal directions. I don't imagine that will be much of an issue.
Well, I’m well aware of this problem, but you know? The first thing I’m gonna do is remake the Iliac Bay rotating it as needed. I’m thinking of writing down a sort of “translator”, which will take every map pixel from WOODS.WLD, CLIMATE.PAK and POLITICS.PAK and reposition those with the best approximation. Yes, everything will change orientation, but is it really a problem?

I want to divide the whole Tamriel map in 1000x500 pixel rectangles, so the Iliac Bay will end up being divided in different sections on the map.

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jayhova
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Re: Arena / Tamriel Rebuilt... in Daggerfall!

Post by jayhova »

Arneb wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:33 am Well, I’m well aware of this problem, but you know? The first thing I’m gonna do is remake the Iliac Bay rotating it as needed. I’m thinking of writing down a sort of “translator”, which will take every map pixel from WOODS.WLD, CLIMATE.PAK and POLITICS.PAK and reposition those with the best approximation. Yes, everything will change orientation, but is it really a problem?
I was not necessarily pointing it out to you, but rather just voicing the difficulty. If one wished to remap locations how would one go about it? Do you build a translator to remap everything on the fly? Or do you correct both the game data and everything that references the game data? The problem is that if you simply create an interpreter then how do you address the new game space? Of course, then comes the issue that there can be no direct remapping per pixel as the pixels are reinterpreted and not simply moved. Locations are currently on a grid that perfectly lines up with pixels on a grid. But rotating that grid will cause things to not line up so neatly. It may be that this turns out not to be a huge problem.

Of course, I have no clue how the game deals with coordinates. I must assume that when you fast-travel to Gothway Gardens, there is something in the game data that knows where that is and passes coordinates to, in essence, teleport you there.

What are your thoughts on how this will be solved?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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