What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

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jayhova
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What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

Post by jayhova »

There are a few differences between DFU and Original Daggerfall. What would you like to see modeled in DFU that is missing? I have a few nit picks.
  1. Flatter terrain
    ODF had much flatter terrain. The changes to the terrain modeling are the largest single change to the game. Trading that flat terrain for the much better terrain in DFU creates problems that did not exist in the original, in particular coastal and other cities that are embedded in the sides of mountains and thousands of feet above sea level. The current terrain model is way better but produces this problem.
  2. No ability to make notes on maps.
    Maybe I am the only player that did this but I would make notes on maps to indicate where the good shops were and what they had that I wanted but could not yet afford. I understand this function was a holdover from Arena but it was immersion building for me.
  3. No mode to enable the original character-building loopholes.
    I'd like to see the ability to have paralysis immunity work the way it did in the original for that OG experience. Yes, I am aware it's a cheat, however, I would like the ability to load original games using these loopholes and have them play as they did when the game was released.
Did I miss any? Do you have anything you would like to see back in Daggerfall?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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Jay_H
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Re: What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

Post by Jay_H »

1 is handled by Flatterfall: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/188

2 is not entirely going to be recreated, but players will be able to edit shop names in DFU 0.14.5.

3 is covered by Classic Exploits: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/318

Vorzak
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Re: What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

Post by Vorzak »

There’s also the classic draw distance/fog that’s not implemented into base DFU as an option.
But that’s fine because mods are great at adding that stuff:
https://github.com/BadLuckBurt/blb-clas ... s/tag/v1.1

From my understanding, DFU was never intended to be a 1:1 recreation of Daggerfall, but a modern remake of the game with a new engine, appropriate enhancements, fixes and tweaks while also including many (not all) options for classic look and function. It does a great job at duplicating many original DF features. Even for me who plays DFU the classic way, it’s more than I could’ve asked for already. Mods can pick up the rest that base DFU misses.
(small edit: DFU is considered a remake, just not 1:1 of classic)

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jayhova
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Re: What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

Post by jayhova »

Jay_H wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:50 pm 1 is handled by Flatterfall: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/188
To be clear I am generally in favor of the newer terrain modeling and I would like to see something like this that suppresses elevation (that's relative elevation not elevation above sea level) around cities and towns so they are not in the sides of mountains or at inappropriate elevations.
Jay_H wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:50 pm 2 is not entirely going to be recreated, but players will be able to edit shop names in DFU 0.14.5.
Again, this was a thing I used because I played Arena and I played Daggerfall as one who plays it like one played Arena. Note-taking is an emersion tool. e.g. Here is the inn where I have bought a room for the next year, etc.
Jay_H wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:50 pm 3 is covered by Classic Exploits: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/318
That is good to know. It is as I expected a thing at least some would want. I do think it should be supported natively in DFU and be off by default. Perhaps, there could be a thing where the game mostly just ignores the exploit unless you load a game where the character was created with the exploit and then DFU as if you want to enable it for this game. Perhaps a similar thing at character creation. a dialog box:
"You have selected conflicting character creation traits.
DFU no longer supports this exploit natively.
Would you like to enable Classic Exploits?"
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

Vorzak
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Re: What things that are in ODF would you like to see modeled in DFU?

Post by Vorzak »

jayhova wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:41 pm ODF had much flatter terrain. The changes to the terrain modeling are the largest single change to the game. Trading that flat terrain for the much better terrain in DFU creates problems that did not exist in the original, in particular coastal and other cities that are embedded in the sides of mountains and thousands of feet above sea level. The current terrain model is way better but produces this problem.
I can partly agree with this. It is a bit unrealistic to have towns near the coast so high in elevation or towns on steep hillsides, etc. But I disagree that the terrain has to be “flatter” overall to solve this issue or that this needs to be resolved in native DFU. My assumption is that DFU uses the WOOD.WLD from the old DF files as a general guide for its terrain rendering and that's where these elevation issues originated, I could be wrong.

Edit: Actually, I'm correcting my initial statements. It is perfectly realistic to have villages and cities on mountain tops or sides or on high cliffs. I don't care at all about this being in DFU terrain
fira.jpg
fira.jpg (314.58 KiB) Viewed 233 times
and
https://www.ba-bamail.com/travel/30-spe ... ide-views/
jayhova wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:41 pm No mode to enable the original character-building loopholes.
I'd like to see the ability to have paralysis immunity work the way it did in the original for that OG experience. Yes, I am aware it's a cheat, however, I would like the ability to load original games using these loopholes and have them play as they did when the game was released.
jayhova wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:11 am That is good to know. It is as I expected a thing at least some would want. I do think it should be supported natively in DFU and be off by default. Perhaps, there could be a thing where the game mostly just ignores the exploit unless you load a game where the character was created with the exploit and then DFU as if you want to enable it for this game. Perhaps a similar thing at character creation. a dialog box:
"You have selected conflicting character creation traits.
DFU no longer supports this exploit natively.
Would you like to enable Classic Exploits?"
But why? Its a bug, and if the DF devs had caught it back then before release we wouldn't be talking about it now. Its certainly not how the game was meant to be played (I suppose I don't have to tell anyone that, but whatever). So wouldn’t recreating bugs back into DFU be counterproductive to the goal of a project like this (ie fixing/enhancing DF as if it had a lot more development time back then, hence removing all bugs)? Similar to OpenMW, it would be silly for them to recreate the famous 'infinite fortify spell' exploits for Morrowind etc., it wouldn't make sense.
Besides, there is the mod, a less intrusive way to add this kind of thing for those who want it. Of course, if anyone really wants that authentic OG experience with all the lovely bugs, there is always the classic DOS version. ;)

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