Lockpicking overhaul

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Jay_H
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Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Jay_H » Tue May 22, 2018 6:45 pm

In classic I always found it a serious damper to only be able to pick any lock once. I had thought of being given unlimited attempts like with bashing, but then there would be no balance; bashing would always be inferior even to the most basic lockpicker. Perhaps up to five attempts per door or something.

Furthermore, there should be some answer to magically locked doors, which were absolute roadblocks in classic. Even worse was the game's mechanic of increasing the level of dungeon locks to your lockpicking skill, until all doors were magically locked :lol:

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mikeprichard
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by mikeprichard » Tue May 22, 2018 8:23 pm

Also agree on this - lockpicking needs some serious mod "fixes" to address these vanilla issues. Not to mention that level scaling in RPGs (any level scaling mechanic in my opinion, including loot/enemy strength etc., and certainly scaling of this kind) needs to be killed with fire. Would be interested to see what people come up with.

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Orzene
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Orzene » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:00 pm

I think if you're going to expand the lockpicking mechanics, there should be something a bit more "adjustable" and-or "forgiving"? If we limit it so many times, maybe make it to where failed attempts eventually break the lock, which needs a 12-24 hour time period to fix? Either that, or have it resource dependent like how the later systems integrated it. Not that we need to integrate a mini-game, since that's more work than simply doing dice-rolls that use stats. I figure Bashing would be better defined as "last resort" system, rather than the go-to, since even IF you increased the tries from a one-time, to 5 or even 10 times total, you're still limiting the ability to practice and increase the skill stat by making every door a one-time per *game* deal.
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Ommamar
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Ommamar » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:36 pm

I think a lock picking system would work, just set it to a Boolean flag to check if you have a lock pick in inventory you can attempt to pick a lock. This combined with a break system based on how skilled you are at lock picking would be a good way to go. I would also like to see practice chests that are locked located in thieves guild as lock picking is one of the hardest skills to raise particularly if you try to raise it by use and not training.

I would also like to see both the open and lock spells be adjusted. It doesn't really make sense that you cast the spell on your self, not the locked door. Then the chance is only that you will buff yourself to try to open the door which you can still fail at if the lock is to high of a level for you.

Bash is nice as the last resort or if you are playing a build that has nothing to do with thieving, but it is what you end up doing 95% of the time.

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Orzene
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Orzene » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:43 pm

Do you think it'd be good for a perma-lock break? Or should there be a repair time-gate before you can revisit that lock? I think it's one of those mechanics that feels thematically viable when you're talking about a world that's filled with locked doors but no actual "lock smiths" to repair these items. Not unless everyone is just knows how to make locks but doesn't know -and is okay with- never repairing them.
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Ommamar
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Ommamar » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:21 pm

Orzene wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:43 pm
Do you think it'd be good for a perma-lock break? Or should there be a repair time-gate before you can revisit that lock? I think it's one of those mechanics that feels thematically viable when you're talking about a world that's filled with locked doors but no actual "lock smiths" to repair these items. Not unless everyone is just knows how to make locks but doesn't know -and is okay with- never repairing them.
Since you can bash doors down I think it wouldn't be to bad of a mechanic to have perma-lock break. There is also a case to be made that if you understood a lock well enough to pick it you could likely repair it as well, I guess instead of lock picking a broken lock the skill would attempt to repair it instead. Maybe with a certain numbers of repair attempts before it would be considered unrecoverable.

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Orzene
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Orzene » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:17 pm

Ommamar wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:21 pm
There is also a case to be made that if you understood a lock well enough to pick it you could likely repair it as well, I guess instead of lock picking a broken lock the skill would attempt to repair it instead. Maybe with a certain numbers of repair attempts before it would be considered unrecoverable.
Seems good. Are we still sticking to the realm of resource-based lockpicking? With "picking/repairing", it feels like using finite resources might over-complicate the system. Might be better to just have it set to the skill on it's own, or maybe end up finding/buying 1x certain quality of Lockpick, where a bonus might be added if you were to get better quality Lockpicks?

-Standard Lockpick = +0% modifier
-Fine Lockpick = +10/20%
-Great Lockpick = +30/40%
-Master Lockpick = +50/60%

Thoughts???
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Ommamar
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Ommamar » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:16 pm

Orzene wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:17 pm
Ommamar wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:21 pm
There is also a case to be made that if you understood a lock well enough to pick it you could likely repair it as well, I guess instead of lock picking a broken lock the skill would attempt to repair it instead. Maybe with a certain numbers of repair attempts before it would be considered unrecoverable.
Seems good. Are we still sticking to the realm of resource-based lockpicking? With "picking/repairing", it feels like using finite resources might over-complicate the system. Might be better to just have it set to the skill on it's own, or maybe end up finding/buying 1x certain quality of Lockpick, where a bonus might be added if you were to get better quality Lockpicks?

-Standard Lockpick = +0% modifier
-Fine Lockpick = +10/20%
-Great Lockpick = +30/40%
-Master Lockpick = +50/60%

Thoughts???
Interesting idea, maybe a bit high percentages. Starting at 5%/10% and ending at 30%/35% might be better but would need a system implemented to try to find the balance of success versus availability of the different lock picks. You could tie it into the lock pick skill say anyone could use a standard pick but only someone with 90%-100% skill could use a master pick. Liking how the idea is developing!

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princessbinas
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by princessbinas » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm

Ommamar wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:36 pm
I think a lock picking system would work, just set it to a Boolean flag to check if you have a lock pick in inventory you can attempt to pick a lock. This combined with a break system based on how skilled you are at lock picking would be a good way to go. I would also like to see practice chests that are locked located in thieves guild as lock picking is one of the hardest skills to raise particularly if you try to raise it by use and not training.

I would also like to see both the open and lock spells be adjusted. It doesn't really make sense that you cast the spell on your self, not the locked door. Then the chance is only that you will buff yourself to try to open the door which you can still fail at if the lock is to high of a level for you.

Bash is nice as the last resort or if you are playing a build that has nothing to do with thieving, but it is what you end up doing 95% of the time.
I like this idea, especially with the open spell being turned into a fortify lockpicking spell. However, that would sort of break the Mage's Guild quests that require you to have the open spell to open a magically locked chest/trunk that a client needs help with opening.

Ommamar
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Re: Lockpicking overhaul

Post by Ommamar » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:05 pm

princessbinas wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
Ommamar wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:36 pm
I think a lock picking system would work, just set it to a Boolean flag to check if you have a lock pick in inventory you can attempt to pick a lock. This combined with a break system based on how skilled you are at lock picking would be a good way to go. I would also like to see practice chests that are locked located in thieves guild as lock picking is one of the hardest skills to raise particularly if you try to raise it by use and not training.

I would also like to see both the open and lock spells be adjusted. It doesn't really make sense that you cast the spell on your self, not the locked door. Then the chance is only that you will buff yourself to try to open the door which you can still fail at if the lock is to high of a level for you.

Bash is nice as the last resort or if you are playing a build that has nothing to do with thieving, but it is what you end up doing 95% of the time.
I like this idea, especially with the open spell being turned into a fortify lockpicking spell. However, that would sort of break the Mage's Guild quests that require you to have the open spell to open a magically locked chest/trunk that a client needs help with opening.
Hmm not really as you have to use the bought spell to complete it as the custom spells won't work unlike the ID item quest. Basically a do you have it or not check to complete it so I don't really see any changes effecting that particular quest.

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