KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

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jayhova
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by jayhova » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:44 am

I think we can assume that daedric items to some extent morph to the whim of the daedra. Moving back and forth to and from oblivion might alter things. As for the mask can you actually equip it and can you wear a helmet at the same time?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:10 pm

Nice touch on the vegetation Adrinus! Thank you!

Pango, yea, the burnout can be real, thanksfully, I have it only on some parts like the static NPCs, but I enjoy working on other aspects of the DREAM nevertheless :) For example, animated NPCs are good to go for me...

Jayhova, the mask artefact cant be spawned now, artifacts are quite new and some of em are bugged, I created a bug report just on that, so I think it will be corrected in a future. I dont know how the mask works, if its as a helmet, or more like a amulet, or if it just stays in the inventory and you activate it from there...

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:18 pm

SIZE (in MB) comparison of various DFMOD compression methods
DFMOD Compression.jpg
DFMOD Compression.jpg (9.48 KiB) Viewed 198 times


LZMA Legacy:
Commoners....24
Hud & menu...25
MOBs..........169
NPCs...........109
Portraits.......19
Sprites.........76
Textures......535
---------------------
TOTAL........933


LZ4:
Commoners....38
Hud & menu...38
MOBs..........282
NPCs..........136
Portraits.......30
Sprites........113
Textures......714
---------------------
TOTAL.......1350


Uncompressed:
Commoners....269
Hud & menu.....72
MOBs...........2691
NPCs.............384
Portraits.........72
Sprites..........563
Textures........977
-----------------------
TOTAL.........5028

We can see that Uncompressed gets very big. Things to note is that:
  • Textures size grows in almost linear way in all methods (535 > 714 > 977)
  • Sprites LZMA > LZ4 - no big change but LZ4 > Uncompressed is 500% bigger (76 > 113 > 563)
  • MOBS LZMA > LZ4 - no big change bet LZ4 > Uncompressed is 1000% bigger (169 > 282 > 2691)
  • Commoners behave quite similar to mobs, but not to the same extent (24 > 38 > 269)

Conclusion
  • Each mod section might profit from a different settings, but its the future performance tests results which will influence the final settings the most.
  • Textures - uncompressed seem ok size wise
  • Mobs/Npcs/Sprites tend to get really huge uncompressed, so LZMA might be better
  • Rest is not that important size wise, so the results of performance tests will dictate the method used further down the road

Performance benchmarks will follow and I will update this post with results later, hopefully this month after I return from holidays (leaving tomorrow)

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Adrinus
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by Adrinus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Say, is there any way to edit the character portrait gear? And the portraits for that matter? I'd be very happy to work on those.

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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:56 pm

Character portrait gear - you mean things like armor, weapons etc?
Armor, clothing and weapons work in different way, and just redrawing them would not work. They are coded by the precise colors, so the engine can swap the palete on them for different materials like iron, silver etc. Or colors in case of clothing. Id leave that for later stages, or until we better understand what needs to be done there. My early results are unusable, and its a high chance yours will be as well...

The portraits on the other hand, are easy to do. I can send you the latest version:
https://mega.nz/#!WiJn2ajK!JjGbfsPncwHd ... 4EgQFA9Irk

If you mean the character backgrounds, they are here, but they have specific style Im not sure about it:
https://mega.nz/#!W7ZTBaBS!OjFK4WxBTVjD ... x4DBSbLDr0

EDIT: Sry if I understood it wrong, Im also in hurry now as I leave tomorrow and Im packing things etc... let me know, I can send you what you ask for, be4 Im out .)

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MasonFace
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by MasonFace » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:11 pm

Adrinus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:56 pm
Say, is there any way to edit the character portrait gear? And the portraits for that matter? I'd be very happy to work on those.
If you give me a little time, I could upscale the character portrait images to give you a better starting point.
They are coded by the precise colors, so the engine can swap the palete on them for different materials like iron, silver etc. Or colors in case of clothing.
Our friend MrFlibble may be able to match the upscaled results back to the original DF palette and maybe it will work as intended?


@KoW:

Interesting results. Thanks for sharing!

I'm not sure there will be a difference in performance, but I'm making this claim in ignorance. I believe once the .dfmod package gets decompressed at runtime, the performance is the same - the only difference is the disk space needed for the .dfmod and the load time for decompressing the assets contained in the .dfmod package. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the matter can clarify. Regardless, it's worth some testing to see.

As an aside, when are you planning to released the next DREAM update? I'm hoping to get the MOB upscales done within the next few weeks if everything functions according to plan.

Anyhow, have a great holiday!

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pango
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by pango » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:23 pm

MasonFace wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:11 pm
I'm not sure there will be a difference in performance, but I'm making this claim in ignorance. I believe once the .dfmod package gets decompressed at runtime, the performance is the same - the only difference is the disk space needed for the .dfmod and the load time for decompressing the assets contained in the .dfmod package. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the matter can clarify. Regardless, it's worth some testing to see.
(That's relatively recent knowledge on my part, so I hope I got this right)
That was the case until recently, because mods generated with Daggerfall for Unity Tools always used LZMA compression, which gives the tightest compression, but also compresses the mod as a whole; So mod had to be uncompressed before use, hence the minute of initialization when DREAM is present.

That's not the case for uncompressed mods; And that's also not the case for LZO compressed mods, not just because it's a very fast algorithm, but also because it's used to compress mods in chunks that can be decompressed separately.

That's when I saw you could select compression algorithm when creating mods (thanks to Lypyl from what I can tell), I told King of Worms about it for DREAM mod :)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Adrinus
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by Adrinus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:25 pm

MasonFace wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:11 pm

If you give me a little time, I could upscale the character portrait images to give you a better starting point.
They are coded by the precise colors, so the engine can swap the palete on them for different materials like iron, silver etc. Or colors in case of clothing.
Our friend MrFlibble may be able to match the upscaled results back to the original DF palette and maybe it will work as intended?
I'd love it if you up-scaled them for me first.
King of Worms wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:56 pm
Armor, clothing and weapons work in different way, and just redrawing them would not work. They are coded by the precise colors, so the engine can swap the pallete on them for different materials like iron, silver etc. Or colors in case of clothing. Id leave that for later stages, or until we better understand what needs to be done there. My early results are unusable, and its a high chance yours will be as well...
That's unfortunate, but understandable. Hopefully we can get some way to handle that, even if I have to make a separate one for each material type (in-fact, I'd prefer that: finally make the leather stuff look like leather!).

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:39 pm

Hi guys,

well the portraits Ive uploaded are XBR upscaled and Ive made a lot of manual input on them as well, so they look relatively nice (for example all hoods are remade, lots of facial features were improved, etc) But the AI upscales by MasonFace he posted be4 were very nice as well. SO it might be best for Adrinus to have both and be able to choose between them on the fly.

Reverting upscaled wepons/armor/clothing back to Daggerfall palette MIGHT do the trick, its indeed worth a try!
I must study this particular mod process more and fully understand it. That will happen next month from my side. Sry that I cant be more specific at the moment. One thing is sure - the upscaled wepons/armor/clothing are NOT shown at the paperdoll YET. Only place you can see them is in the inventory. Once you equip it, it either bugs out or reverts back to vanilla (like the artifacts do now, for example the Skull) Than there is another topic of equiped weapons in hands, casting hands etc...

About the performance, yes it seems it will be mostly about the initialization time.
BUT, if the mod is compressed into packages, which get decompressed when they are needed, I wonder, what will happen if you for example meet a mob for a 1st time? Will the part be decompressed at that moment? Causing a stutter? OR will it be decompressed on the moment you enter a dungeon, causing a prolonged loading time? Those are concerns which need to be tested.

To me, the uncompressed really seems the best option, because we talking about cca 5gb of data. Which is not much in todays standards. And if I understand it right, that way all possible hickup or slowdown scenarios chances are minimalized. But it will be best to just try it out and test it. And decide based on that.

I guess this is my last post for now, I leave tomorrow :)

Be well guys, thanks for cooperation!!

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