Daggerfall Workshop Forums

I'm playing an Etiquette using knight, so I keep allways using "Polite" when talking with NPCs. With commoners this usually leads to problems since they generally react poorly to this.
I assumed that this could be aliviated by not only increasing my Etiquette and Personality scores but also by increasing my Reputation with commoners.

However, when I started looking at my savegame data and looking at the Daggerfall wikis, I could not find any way to actually affect reputation with commoners except during character creation?

Is this correct? I assume that there are quests where commoners is an oassociated faction so reputation might bleed over to them when doing stuff for, for example, merchants? But since I can't find commoners as a faction is the savefile I am sceptical of this.

Each region has it's own group of commoners, like people of daggerfall etc

Hmm, ok. That makes sense. So in the faction data they would be listed as what? People of Daggerfall, People of Wayrest etc?

Yes, commoners are listed as "People of" the region you are in. When talking to commoners or people of the Underworld (Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood members), you should use a Blunt tone, or at least a Normal tone if your Streetwise skill is too low and/or you don't want to raise it. E.g. if you are role playing a knight, you would probably prefer to avoid using a Blunt tone in any circumstances.

Now, if you want to raise your reputation with commoners ("People of" factions), you have to get commoner quests from static NPCs you can find in buildings, except merchants and innkeepers. Because these last ones are not considered as "People of" but have their own dedicated faction called "The Merchants". As such, doing quests for them will only raise your reputation with this faction. Which is not, in my opinion, quite logical, as Merchants are a social group, not a guild, so doing a quest for a Daggerfall merchant should not have any impact on your relation with another merchant from the Alik'r Desert, for example. I have some plans to change this behavior by making a kind of faction upgrade mod.

Ferital wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:54 am Now, if you want to raise your reputation with commoners ("People of" factions), you have to get commoner quests from static NPCs you can find in buildings, except merchants and innkeepers. Because these last ones are not considered as "People of" but have their own dedicated faction called "The Merchants". As such, doing quests for them will only raise your reputation with this faction. Which is not, in my opinion, quite logical, as Merchants are a social group, not a guild, so doing a quest for a Daggerfall merchant should not have any impact on your relation with another merchant from the Alik'r Desert, for example. I have some plans to change this behavior by making a kind of faction upgrade mod.

Agreed. If nothing else, merchant quests should have a heavy bleed-off effect to the People Of Region group. But really, it would be easier if merchants and innkeepers were just merged into the local People Of Region. Or were their own Merchants Of Region. Allthough Daggerfall allready has way too many half-implemeted factions.

I completely agree with that. I'm quite familiar with Daggerfall faction system as I worked a lot on reverse engineering classic mechanics behind it. From what I discovered, some factions listed in FACTION.TXT were supposed to be used only to propose some specific services. These factions are: The Merchants, Temple Missionaries, Temple Treasurers, Temple Healers, Temple Blessers, Smiths, Questers and Healers. Some other generic factions, like Bards or Prostitutes, were also clearly designed to propose other services but were never implemented.

So, I have plans to make a mod or DFU "enhanced faction option" to remove these generic factions from the reputation system and to keep them only for their original purpose which is to provide services.

Yeah, I discovered that when I looked at my faction data. I had a much higher rep with the temple quester. Which is just weird. It's not like the other NPCs in the temple give me quests unless I manage to provoke one with the "Talk" option.

It would problably be really handy if a lot of these sub-factions were collapsed into the obvious factions you would expect.


Once that is done, it would be pretty nice if there was an ingame way to access the information. For axample via the "Affiliations" button where instead of member rank it could just say "Hated", "Disliked", Neutral", "Liked" and "Loved" for a general idea of your status with factions you are not a member of.

Ralzar wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:15 amBut since I can't find commoners as a faction is the savefile I am sceptical of this.

I'm not sure if anyone ITT has answered your question, so I'm just going to add that "savedata.txt" is where the "reputationCommoners" value is stored. Commoners aren't a faction, they're a social class.

I didn't know about that, seems these things were added to PlayerEntity by Allofich a couple of years ago, and more recently a year back by Numidium to the savedata.

Looks like these reputations are dealt with completely separate from the faction reputations. I assume that matches classic, but I had not realised and thought the people of region factions were used. The values are only used for talking to people, and it seems after character creation the values never change.

Yes this matches classic. You have three groups of reputation values in Daggerfall:

• Faction reputation: the main reputation system, where player gets a reputation with each faction, which can be raised/decreased by doing quests. This reputation is used to check if an NPC will talk to you or not and how he will greet and answer you.
• Social reputation: this can be seen as a kind of extra and is set at the start of a game by considering that a character may be more at ease with some specific social classes (e.g., knights might have a little boost with Nobles and a little penalty with the Underworld). You can get a reputation with 5 social classes in Daggerfall: Underworld, Commoners, Merchants, Scholars and Nobles. This is also used when talking to NPCs, as all NPCs are member of a social class (see field sgroup in FACTION.TXT). I need to check, but from what I remember, this social reputation can only take one of the following values: -5 (Lower), 0 (Unchanged), +5 (Higher).
• Legal reputation: this is completely separate and is never used when talking to NPCs, basically this is used only to check if guards should be chasing you or not.