Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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L57
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:53 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by L57 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:23 am

That's always looked a little wrong with DF cities, that there are way too many living residences and not that many crafting workshops. In classic we had some 'nothing worth' buildings which could hide this problem a little bit, but in DFU all buildings are accessible, and it is a bit immersion-breaking moment when you realize that 'visible economy' in game is just too small.

Classic already has plenty of objects to imitate productive activity, and possibly it's not that hard to replace some big living buildings with workshops where a bunch of armorers resides with various equipment (such as grindstones) instead of beds, and so on and so on.

In this regard, I have a question: would it be possible to replace many interiors by type at once, or you must rework every single building in the game? I'd probably try to make such mod myself if the former option is feasible.

BadLuckBurt
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by BadLuckBurt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:13 am

L57 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:23 am
In this regard, I have a question: would it be possible to replace many interiors by type at once, or you must rework every single building in the game? I'd probably try to make such mod myself if the former option is feasible.
It's possible but it depends on what you mean by 'replacing many interiors by type at once'. I'll explain a bit further, you can skip the info you already know:

The cities, villages, etc. are built by blocks that have predefined building layouts.
The way the exterior building - interior setup works is that there's a custom interior defined for each exterior building in a block and that's where the game will take you when you activate the door. So you can have every building in a block look the same from the outside but have a different layout inside.

Hazelnut's WorldData system allows you to overwrite the data for a single building in a block so you could add a blacksmith to a residential block (his Archaelogist's mod does this for the Guild buildings). Any city, town or village that uses the block you altered will have the new building you add this way.

The exterior buildings are mostly single models so they can be swapped out easily for whatever you like. The interior for that building would have to be made by hand or you could copy an existing interior layout and edit that.

The biggest issue with making an interior from scratch is the lack of a proper editor to place room pieces, objects and markers. I hacked something together in Blender that lets me do this stuff but you have to be aware of how Daggerfall's data structure works. You'll also have to wrestle with the fact that all models in Daggerfall are numbered, they have no names.

The easiest way I can think of at the moment is to use Uncanny Valley's location editor that he used to make the Taverns mod, that will let you edit the interiors in a visual way. I'm not sure if it handles exteriors in the same way.

It will probably becomes easier in the future as DFU gets more mature and has more editing capabilities but for now it's mostly a manual process.

L57
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:53 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by L57 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:40 am

Thank you for clarifing that.

On a second thought, that's probably a nice balance between living buildings and various stores in game, but some shops may be re-worked as a proper workshop, so there is no need to create new buildings.

What I mean ultimately is to make corporation and guild structure more visible in-game: such that you can see some craftsmen, journeymen, apprentices etc. Vanilla Daggerfall has armorer workshops which have master only and nobody else.

So probably it will be not that hard after all to do that... Thanks for the tip on Uncanny Valley's location editor. :)

BadLuckBurt
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by BadLuckBurt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:01 pm

L57 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:40 am
Thank you for clarifing that.

On a second thought, that's probably a nice balance between living buildings and various stores in game, but some shops may be re-worked as a proper workshop, so there is no need to create new buildings.

What I mean ultimately is to make corporation and guild structure more visible in-game: such that you can see some craftsmen, journeymen, apprentices etc. Vanilla Daggerfall has armorer workshops which have master only and nobody else.

So probably it will be not that hard after all to do that... Thanks for the tip on Uncanny Valley's location editor. :)
You're welcome. If you start with existing shops, UV's interior editor should get you quite far if not all the way there, the reworked taverns turned out pretty cool.

And I like your idea, it'll definitely make those places feel more alive like they would've been in reality. A lot of craftsmen back in the day had apprentices as that was the only way to learn the craft. Closest we get to schools in DF are libraries and lord knows what all the kids are up to :lol:

Some last tips:

You can use Daggerfall Modeling to look at the exterior blocks to pick ones that you think are suited to your changes.
You can also view locations with it and find out which blocks are used there.
And there's a dumplocblocks command in the console that lets you dump the location names and the blocks used at that location, you can use this list to determine which locations would be affected by your changes.

Best of luck!

L57
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:53 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by L57 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:04 pm

BadLuckBurt wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:13 am
The exterior buildings are mostly single models so they can be swapped out easily for whatever you like. The interior for that building would have to be made by hand or you could copy an existing interior layout and edit that.
Could you clarify please, what will happen if I put a house into the game without an appropriate interior? I suppose these exterior building models already have the doors (have not had time to look at it myself yet, but I'm going to). What will happen if this door does not lead anywhere? Will it simply show me "this house is nothing of value" message?

Now imagine I have added new building in game and added interior as well, some NPCs inside and so on. Does it mean that this interior may be used in random generated quests automatically? Or I have to link it to the possible destination lists (or something like that) myself?

What will happen If I delete a link between any exterior in city/town/village block and its interior? Will it make this house "nothing of value"? Will it remove this interior from random generated quests automatically, should I expect any bugs in game?

BadLuckBurt
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Mod idea: More workshops instead of residences in towns

Post by BadLuckBurt » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:54 pm

L57 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:04 pm
Could you clarify please, what will happen if I put a house into the game without an appropriate interior? I suppose these exterior building models already have the doors (have not had time to look at it myself yet, but I'm going to). What will happen if this door does not lead anywhere? Will it simply show me "this house is nothing of value" message?
Yes, as far as I know, if DFU can't load an interior, it will display that message.
Now imagine I have added new building in game and added interior as well, some NPCs inside and so on. Does it mean that this interior may be used in random generated quests automatically? Or I have to link it to the possible destination lists (or something like that) myself?
I have no experience with custom buildings and using them in quests. I believe Hazelnut has done this in his mod but the custom location is a dungeon. I don't think you need to add it to any lists, as long as the location / building is loaded and it matches a quest's parameter, DFUs code probably takes care of the rest.
What will happen If I delete a link between any exterior in city/town/village block and its interior? Will it make this house "nothing of value"? Will it remove this interior from random generated quests automatically, should I expect any bugs in game?
I expect it will give you the nothing of value message. I don't know if you should expect bugs but it probably isn't a good idea to delete a link while a quest is active and targets that interior.

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