Real Men Don't Play in Tiny Dungeons

[Hurricane Otter]

Oh, custom dungeons would be something spectacular. Call me a heretic, but in spite of the prevailing opinion, I don't think Daggerfall's dungeons are very... what's the word? Good. That's it. Good.

There are so many dungeon types, but they're all the same. Think how many there are: strongholds and cemeteries, crypts and covens, spider nests, harpy nests, laboratories and prisons, caves, ruined castles, vampire haunts, dragon's dens... You have to think: what if each one had its own custom rooms and tilesets? What if, when you explored an abandoned manor, it actually *looked like a manor* and was *put together like a manor,* and not just underground labyrinth #87? Caves would be expansive and cavernous, prisons divided into different cellblocks, castles could have grand, sprawling halls and tall towers... Maybe a mod like this will never be made, but it's fun to dream.

[Ralzar]

A mod like that is not impossible, but will require some manpower and time. I built a new mine that was all caves, beams, abandoned equipment, collapsed roofs etc. I even built a wood elevator shaft. It ran ito a couple of problems though. The most obvious being that in DFU live the object rotation was handeled differently so stuff that looked perfect in the editor was suddenly standing at a completely different angle in the live game.
Also, after having built it I found out a bit more about how dungeon blocks worked and how to build within them. Which would allow me to build a bunch of blocks and then manually randomizing them a bit to get different permutations. So like dungeons are currently built, but with only custom made mine-themed blocks.
I think this is the furthest anyone has gotten so far. I have not yet gotten around to checking how that custom dungeon works in the current build. If it works better, I’ll probably pick up the project again.

The other way dungeons are being built is theough modelling programs like blender, where people make the whole thing from scratch which seems both easier and harder, while what I did was just use the existing Daggerfall assets in new ways.

[westingtyler]

when you say you made your own dungeon, could you explain this? did you use DF Modeling to export all the blocks textured, then assemble them in Blender? or what? I am very curious to learn about this.

Also I see a cool vision of a future for Daggerfall where modders just divvy up or 'reserve' certain dungeon entrances, for their own modpacks that replace some of the 4,200 default dungeons with custom ones. there could be a spreadsheet showing which ones have been used by other mods, so new modders choose a different set, and nobody interferes with another's custom dungeons. then once all 4,200 dungeons are custom, if that EVER happens, we can mod in new entrances in the world, and create more spots for new dungeons.

and let's say a renowned modder name Beelock or something, makes a dungeon pack, with a list and map of where his dungeons are in the game, people could seek them out with some in-game tool, like a letter listing them, or use online resources to find and explore them.

and maybe there would be pieces of some unique decorative furniture item you gather the parts for in each dungeon, so then after someone's quest pack has been 'beaten' you have a kind of trophy to display showing you beat "Bellock's Dungeon Darkness Pack #1" for example.

So i'm not worried about people not ever encountering the modded dungeons, since I bet there would be ways to seek them out, especially for those who chose to install the packs.

[Ralzar]

Basically I used this:
viewtopic.php?t=2857
With quite a bit of hand-holding from BadLuckBurt to get me started.
My dungeon was built in the unity editor using the existing assets from vanilla daggerfall put together in new combinations to create a unique new dungeon that you could visit in one spicific mine in Dragontail Mountains.

I did run into this problem though, which I am not sure if is fixed now or not:
viewtopic.php?t=5456

As to divvying up dungeons so to speak, this will probably be done through this thread once we get to the point that people are actually making and releasing new functioning dungeons to the public.
viewtopic.php?t=3023

It is also possible to build complete dungeon models in Blender and import these, or so I am lead to believe, but my biggest focus is to more or less mass produce better generic dungeons to replace all the same-y anthill labyrinth randomized dungeons with thematic same-y dungeons that make sense. The idea was to, for example: Select dungeon in a region. Make a new dungeon the same size that thematically fits the type of dungeon. Then find a dungeon of the same size and type in most regions and place that dungeon in those places as well. Possibly with some modifications to mix it up.

So far I am thinking in broad strokes about the general feel of the game, not about managing to add one hand crafted dungeon and a quest or similar that uses the dungeon. Not that those will not be awsome additions, but with a game this size and with a modding scene this small I’m thinking quantity over quality. Once we have quantity, the quality will increase over time.

[Werewolf]

One thing I notice in Daggerfall is that whilst there are technically different dungeon types, every dungeon looks the same except there are different enemy types. Pretty clear that originally the different types would look different but Daggerfall was pretty much an incomplete game. On this page you can see the dungeon types: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Dungeons

But alas they all are the same except different enemies. Maybe for starters modders could try to make the dungeon types look correct, have Mines actually be mines, and have Ruined Castles actually look like ruined castles. There’s technically 18 different dungeon types but they are all the weird Lego mixture of random rooms just with different enemies. It almost seems like some of the dungeon blocks were intended for different types of dungeons but in the end all dungeons just used a random assortment of the blocks and the same textures. Having 18 distinct types of dungeons with different layouts and textures would be amazing, though to start someone could mod just 1 to be proper, like the Ruined Castles. Have Ruined Castle dungeons use blocks that fit the design of a castle and have castle textures, for instance. I don’t mod but am giving ideas

[Ralzar]

Maybe for starters modders could try to make the dungeon types look correct, have Mines actually be mines, and have Ruined Castles actually look like ruined castles.

Like this?

Use this mod and go visit Bish Mines in Dragontail Mountains.

(Waiting for some object rotation fix to DFU before this is ready for prime time. Also, I'll have to start using the dungon block logic to make the minimap behave I think.)

BishMinesInDragontail.zip

(17.2 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

[Werewolf]

Will be sure to check that one out. Since Daggerfall has so many dungeons I think the community could start by taking 1 dungeon type and giving it it’s own set of blocks and textures and over time they add up.

[westingtyler]

I've thought about this. for my own game #NotSSgame, I'll be creating a lot of dungeon themes, so helping with unique dungeon piece "themes" for Daggerfall could serve a dual purpose, like how I'm currently making 3d daggerfall enemies I could potentially repurpose for my game.

If there was some way to get all the textured dungeon pieces into a grid inside a Blend file, I could start thinking about this and how to go about this. I'm currently working on 3D enemies, but helping with "dungeon visual theme pieces" is definitely not off the table for me to help with as well, and the more specifics I am given (I'm not much of a coder/programmer) the sooner I can start thinking about this.
What is a list of visual themes needed for Daggerfall's pieces?
and what is the best way to get all the existing dungeon pieces sorted by size, somehow into a Blend file for re-building/retexturing?

[Oblivionaddicted]

Good luck on your project Ralzar.

I prefer the large dungeons because the tiny ones look like a mere amuse-bouche.

I agree it would be cool to have specific dungeon types like mines, prisons etc looking the way they are supposed to look.


Exploring a large dungeon gives me a feeling of satisfaction when I get out with a lot of loot and since I can easily edit my saves I don't have to worry about the magically sealed doors or the out of range treasures for example.

[Werewolf]

Arena had way more dungeon types, like there were mines and castles as opposed to Daggerfall where every dungeon is just random pieces and the same textures. It almost seems like Daggerfall was going to have the dungeon types of Arena and more but that didn’t happen. Like Arena had mines as a dungeon but Daggerfall doesn’t except the “mines” are exactly the same as every other dungeon except with bats and rats. Also seeing how different the dungeon pieces are it seems like at one point different blocks would be for different dungeons but again the dungeons ended up just being assortments of random blocks