MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.6a released]

Show off your mod creations or just a work in progress.
meritamas
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Location: Slovak Republic

Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by meritamas »

0.5a released

Bugfix - Unleveled and Extra Strong Enemies
- changed how enemy weapon and armor materials are generated (the code that was previously there did not do what I intended it to do - generated more of higher materials than intended, should now be fixed)

This release is available for
DOWNLOAD HERE
Here you can find the dfmod file to add to your StreamingAssets/Mods folder.

Please do check out the dev posts on the first page of the thread.
Interest in expanding and improving the Magic system, Capitalism and an Unleveled World.

My main quest in the DFU community is my (Mostly) Magic Mod.

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Jay_H
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by Jay_H »

I have set apart time this weekend, specifically for this single mod, in exclusion of all others in my attempt to show support for it.

I haven't made it very far, but I do have a bug to report (running DFU Windows 0.13.5, MMM 0.5a).

In the spellmaker, the topmost line is empty:

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If I click it, it brings up an empty page:

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Clicking anywhere on it to make a selection gives me this:

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The end result is this:

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Lastly, casting the created spell causes this:

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On an unrelated matter, I'm trying to buy Cure Poison from the guild merchant, and inexplicably am told that I don't have enough money:

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I have more than 900 while the spell costs around 500.

I did previously buy a Cure Disease spell, and the transaction worked like in normal; there was no teaching window nor offer time. Now I don't get the teaching window for the too-expensive spells either (except when trying to buy the special spells you modded in).

After adding 10,000 gold to my character, it finally informs me that I don't have enough magical expertise to handle the spell.

****************

Furthermore, the spells "Abundantia" and "Reparo / Reparo Parvulus" have no data in them. I suppose I'm missing the mods that they connect to.

****************

So far on my new character, the difficulty curve seems pretty high. I should probably stick with Destruction since that's my highest skill, but I've had a hard time buying Restoration spells at around 20 skill.

****************

I continue using the new Recall spell to return after each quest, and when I step outside the Mages Guild after teleporting, I'm high in the sky. I have to use TGM to survive the fall each time this happens.

****************

Nevertheless, this mod delivers on the things I expected it to! I very much congratulate you for making it this far. My first dungeon sent me to a fairly tough sorcerer den, where everyone was equipped with Elven plus some Dwarven and Mithril. They were quite hard to kill. It would be great if some indicator showed what level each dungeon has, in some way.

I will definitely be trying this mod out more.

meritamas
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:16 am
Location: Slovak Republic

Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by meritamas »

Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am I have set apart time this weekend, specifically for this single mod, in exclusion of all others in my attempt to show support for it.
[...]
Nevertheless, this mod delivers on the things I expected it to! I very much congratulate you for making it this far.
[...]
I will definitely be trying this mod out more.
Thanks Jay for the support, the kind words and the detailed feedback. I will now try to give a preliminary response to some of what you said and outline how I plan to continue the development of the mod.

First, could you please supply me with player.log files? The mod dumps a lot of info into these that I could use to identify/solve potential issues.
Second, some of the issues raised have their root cause in the fact that the mod is still rough around the edges (the end result is as it was intended but the reasons are not communicated to the player well). I guess it might be time to improve on this.
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am My first dungeon sent me to a fairly tough sorcerer den, where everyone was equipped with Elven plus some Dwarven and Mithril. They were quite hard to kill. It would be great if some indicator showed what level each dungeon has, in some way.
From what you are saying, the material generator seems to be working like it was intended to. Will have a look at what I could do to somehow signal to the player the difficulty level of the dungeon he is entering.
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am In the spellmaker, the topmost line is empty:
This is probably a genuine bug. My game actually hangs when I try to make a spell from that empty line. Interestingly enough, I recall taking that part of the code from the core game files... I will have a look. (Up until now, I never thought of clicking on the empty like... :))
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am
On an unrelated matter, I'm trying to buy Cure Poison from the guild merchant, and inexplicably am told that I don't have enough money:

[Removed the picture link]

I have more than 900 while the spell costs around 500.

[...]

After adding 10,000 gold to my character, it finally informs me that I don't have enough magical expertise to handle the spell.
This is the 'rough around the edges' part. I will endeavor to smooth these things out, so the player is informed of the most pressing issue first.
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am I did previously buy a Cure Disease spell, and the transaction worked like in normal; there was no teaching window nor offer time. Now I don't get the teaching window for the too-expensive spells either (except when trying to buy the special spells you modded in).
This is very interesting. So, it was as if the mod was not even there?
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am
Furthermore, the spells "Abundantia" and "Reparo / Reparo Parvulus" have no data in them. I suppose I'm missing the mods that they connect to.
No, these should work even if only MMM is loaded. These spells work fine for me, but I am using 0.13.4. So, it may be a version difference issue. These spells do some item handling stuff, so if 0.13.5 introduced related changes, this could be causing this issue. I will be switching to 0.13.5 in May and then, I shall see if this is the case.
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am So far on my new character, the difficulty curve seems pretty high.
This is more of a feature than an issue. Learning magic that you are not familiar with should be hard and should take a lot of work and/or ingenuity to find the right path to mastery. ;)
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am I continue using the new Recall spell to return after each quest, and when I step outside the Mages Guild after teleporting, I'm high in the sky. I have to use TGM to survive the fall each time this happens.
When I play, I use the core game's Recall (I plan on re-introducing the advanced version as a part of High Magic, as a new spell). Will need to have a look. Just to be sure I got this right. When teleporting, you appear in the building where you are supposed to appear, but then, when you exit the building, you are dropped from the sky. Is that correct? By any chance, could there have been any change in the terrain sampler since you created the anchor?

Thanks again for testing and giving these detailed descriptions.
I will try to keep you updated on the progress of resolving the issues you raised.

--------

For the next two weeks, I plan little improvement in MMM. I will be busy doing other things. The little time I will have for DFU, I plan to use to update the dev posts on the first page.

Then, I will probably be introducing minor fixes and improvements as part of the 0.5 series, but also, in the background, will be adding the infrastructure that will be needed to introduce the changes I plan for 0.6. These changes can be considered quite ambitious.

Would like three new factors to influence effectiveness in spell casting. These are
  • experience with spells with the relevant target type (ExpTT)
  • experience with the given element (ExpElement)
  • experience with the given effect (ExpEffect)
These could range from 0.7 to 1.0 and function as coefficients in determining effective magic skill. So, the effective skill for e.g. a single-target-at-range frost spell with Damage-Health would be: Destruction * ExpTT-single-target-at-range * ExpCold * ExpDamage-Health.
So, if you gained your destruction skill in some other way than casting similar spells, your effective skill when casting this spell could be reduced to as low as 34% of the nominal skill. (Resulting in an effective skill of around 20 when the nominal skill is 60. With all the relevant consequences. Lower spell level. Higher cost of casting - which would also automatically increase the cost of learning/crating the spell - so I could dispense with the current system of using the spells present in the spellbook to approximate experience with these relevant aspects.)

This will need the mod to keep track of what kind of spells the player casts and keep the relevant tallies. Under the hood, this means getting reliable and detailed information about all player spells cast, keeping the tallies and being able to get them saved and loaded. At this point, I confident enough to say I can probably do this properly.

Would like to introduce the spell confidentiality mechanic. This would mean that certain spells/effects will only be available after gaining a certain rank in the given guild. This would open up new avenues of possibility... could very well include:
- effects that are identical but cheaper than effects available at lower ranks
- some of the more potent effects present in the core game (disintegrate, banish, continuous heal, continuous damage, silence etc)
- new potent effects (new ways to get around - Advanced Teleport, Teleport to Mages Guild, Teleport to Map location etc. new ways to transport things - magic containers etc.)

Would also like it if stronger spells counted more towards skill/experience gain than simple spells.

As I see things now, 0.6 may be out sometime in summer. (But still, other things might come that warrant my attention more so still promising nothing.)
Interest in expanding and improving the Magic system, Capitalism and an Unleveled World.

My main quest in the DFU community is my (Mostly) Magic Mod.

Daedros
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:57 am

Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by Daedros »

Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am I continue using the new Recall spell to return after each quest, and when I step outside the Mages Guild after teleporting, I'm high in the sky. I have to use TGM to survive the fall each time this happens.
I've encountered the same problem. At first i'd have to Fast Travel to the same city while falling to avoid dying, but eventually I ended up just setting my Anchor right outside the Mage's Guild.

I've noticed another problem with the new "Recall" spell introduced with this mod. Casting a "Dispel Magic" spell on self, not only removes any current magic effects running on you, it also clears any Anchor points you've set :/
I kept wondering why my Anchors kept clearing, but then noticed it was usually after i'd fight Vampires and have to dispel their Sleep off of me. I then deliberately tested that, and yeah, it's the Dispel Magic effect on self that causing Anchors to wipe.

meritamas
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by meritamas »

Daedros wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:34 am
Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am I continue using the new Recall spell to return after each quest, and when I step outside the Mages Guild after teleporting, I'm high in the sky. I have to use TGM to survive the fall each time this happens.
I've encountered the same problem. At first i'd have to Fast Travel to the same city while falling to avoid dying, but eventually I ended up just setting my Anchor right outside the Mage's Guild.
Could there have been any change in the terrain sampler since the anchors were made? I don't use this spell at the moment, but I don't recall experiencing similar errors - with the exception of a changed terrain sampler (either new DFU version or change in the mod configuration).
Daedros wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:34 am I've noticed another problem with the new "Recall" spell introduced with this mod. Casting a "Dispel Magic" spell on self, not only removes any current magic effects running on you, it also clears any Anchor points you've set :/
I kept wondering why my Anchors kept clearing, but then noticed it was usually after i'd fight Vampires and have to dispel their Sleep off of me. I then deliberately tested that, and yeah, it's the Dispel Magic effect on self that causing Anchors to wipe.
The first thing that comes to mind. I think this mimics the core game's behavior - an anchor set by the original Recall would be lost in a similar case, I guess. With that said, I understand why somebody would consider this a bug - or, at least, an issue. I will try to add a configuration setting to the next version where the user can choose whether he wants the anchors to be removed by a Dispell effect.
Interest in expanding and improving the Magic system, Capitalism and an Unleveled World.

My main quest in the DFU community is my (Mostly) Magic Mod.

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Arneb
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by Arneb »

Just out of curiosity, have you thought of reintroducing the polymorph spell effect that was in the game in 1.0 (but never actually worked)? I remember one could choose wolf, raven and other two forms that right now don't come to mind.

No idea what those were supposed to do (apart from the obvious - flying? run faster?), but it would be cool.

meritamas
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by meritamas »

Arneb wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 12:34 pm Just out of curiosity, have you thought of reintroducing the polymorph spell effect that was in the game in 1.0 (but never actually worked)? I remember one could choose wolf, raven and other two forms that right now don't come to mind.

No idea what those were supposed to do (apart from the obvious - flying? run faster?), but it would be cool.
Interesting. This is the first time I've heard of this effect (I'm not an original DaggerFall player, I started playing Daggerfall Unity right after I heard about DF: my path was more or less Oblivion -> Morrowind -> Daggerfall Unity).

Nevertheless, the idea you mention would fit into the theme of the mod. Would be great if we can develop the particulars - what it would be for, what it would do, what could the player experience etc. - one day. Realistically, with all my plans already in place, unless a sudden surge of inspiration comes, I don't see myself implementing such an effect this year. But, then again, the world won't end after this year (at least I hope not :) ).
Interest in expanding and improving the Magic system, Capitalism and an Unleveled World.

My main quest in the DFU community is my (Mostly) Magic Mod.

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Ralzar
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by Ralzar »

Hey, just a heads up that I am working on a larger C&C update where I'll include mod messages so it's possible to manipulate C&C stuff through other mods more easily.

meritamas
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Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.5a released]

Post by meritamas »

Ralzar wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:59 am Hey, just a heads up that I am working on a larger C&C update where I'll include mod messages so it's possible to manipulate C&C stuff through other mods more easily.
Thanks for the heads up. I am looking forward to this update, Climates & Calories being one of my favorite mods :)

I am preparing to add two or three spell effects that are connected to C&C: one to dry clothes and one or two to protect the player from wetness.

Most of the code for these effects is already in MMM, but in their current form, they do not work. I plan to release MMM 0.6 sometime near the end of May. If C&C is be able to take messages from MMM by then, 0.6 will likely contain these spell effects in working order. If not, I plan to add them subsequently.
Interest in expanding and improving the Magic system, Capitalism and an Unleveled World.

My main quest in the DFU community is my (Mostly) Magic Mod.

meritamas
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:16 am
Location: Slovak Republic

Re: MeriTamas's (Mostly) Magic Mod [v0.6 released]

Post by meritamas »

In the anniversary of opening this forum thread,
0.6 released

This release is available for
DOWNLOAD HERE
Here you can find the dfmod files to add your StreamingAssets/Mods folder.

Please do check out the dev posts on the first page of the thread. - will endeavor to have more details there one week (7 days) after this release (around 20 June 2022).

Disclaimer: Testing has been done only in the context of my own use-cases. I use the mod with nearly all features on. When it comes to mod settings, I tried to make available a lot of options to turn this-or-that feature on/off, but there might be - and probably are - some bugs that need fixing. Please let me know in a forum post below if you find any issues or would like to have something added/fixed.

As there are so many changes, a lot of new features and nearly everything has changed in some way, instead of a changelog, I will provide a (more or less complete) feature list.

Unleveled and Extra Strong Enemies

Unleveled Class Enemies
Makes dungeon mob level contingent on Dungeon Quality Level, the level of random encounters will use 10 as a base but a large degree of randomness is also introduced.
The main features are covered relatively accurately in the comments in the code files. If in rush, please read that.
Also, the mod leaves a lot of info in player.log. For a quick summary (hopefully one without big mistakes), please refer to Dev Post #4.

Extra Strong Monsters
Certain enemy types (currently Vampire Ancient, Daedra Lord, Ancient Lich, Werewolf, Orc Warlord) can have certain individuals that are exceptionally strong. Currently, this is all there is to it. Every 10th such creature is exceptionally strong (higher level, more than 2x the max health, 2x-4x the max spell points and buffed attributes.)
I have some ideas to take this further in the future,.

Everyday Magic
  • Unleveled Spells - the strength of a spell effect no longer dependent on player character level, but on 'spell level' that in turn is contingent on 'effective' (lee below at 'Experience Tallies') magic skill, willpower and luck. This is essentially the functionality of the old Unleveled Spells mod . For a few details, please refer to Dev Post #4.
  • Minimum Spell Point Cost - core unmodded game has this value at 5; able to set as low as 1 and as high as 10
  • Guild Base Spell Fee Coefficient - the basic fee an instructor (previously: vendor) will charge for a spell is X times the spell's spell point cost - you can set this value here, the core game has it at 4.0
  • Spell Learning - spells are no longer bought and sold, but learned and taught - apart from gold, it takes time (and so fatigue) and magicka points to learn a spell/effect; expended fatigue and magicka can be restored for gold if you buy 'refreshments' (recharge at guild using potions), but the time cost cannot. Learning/inventing a new spell trains the relevant magic skill too
  • Experience (XP) Tallies - monitors the player's experience with Target Types, Elements and the individual effects, this in turn affects spell costs and efficiency. You get a coefficient for Target Type (Caster On Self, Touch etc.), Element (Fire, Cold etc.) and for each individual effect. If no experience with the given aspect, the coefficient is 0.7. With loads of experience, the coefficient is 1.0. For the purposes of spell cost and spell level, 'effective' magic skill is calculated from the nominal relevant magic skill and these coefficients (with low experience, can be as low as one third of the nominal magic skill). Stronger spells will add more XP than reaker spells.
  • Strong Spells Advance Magic Skills More - If the spell-point cost of a spell in higher that a certain percentage of player Intelligence, casting it will add further points to magic skill tallies.
  • Diversified Spell Experience Required For Magic Skill Advancement - after a certain amount of experience with a given effect has been reached, further practice using that effect will add less and less to the relevant magic skill tally. After an effect is 'maxed out', it will hardly add any to the skill tally (goes as low as 10% of the value that would be added in case of an effect that the player has no experience with).
  • Effect Confidentiality Levels - the 'shroud of secrecy' surrounding magic; you will only be offered certain spells/effects if you have sufficient standing in the given guild.
  • Spell Instructor Themes - not all spell teachers are alike - they all have different interests and experience with the different schools of magic; each place where spells can be taught, belong to a Theme - a school of magic in which its instructors are proficient in. The level of proficiency also varies. You will find it is quite rare to encounter instructors that are able to teach you certain 'difficult' spells shrouded deeply in secrecy (effects with high confidentiality levels).
  • Display Effective Magic Skill - the Effective Magic Skill is the value used to calculate spell cost and spell level for the player at the given time (can be influenced e.g. by XPTallies)
  • Max Length of Displayed Spell Name String - QoL, you can now set how many characters the spell names can be in the SpellBook window
Effects and Spells
  • Fix Item - a spell effect that can be used in spells to repair mundane items; items made of lesser materials (Leather, Iron, Steel) are repaired the fastest while rare materials like Ebony, Orcish and Daedric are repaired only very slowly (will add further effects in a later version to repair higher material items effectively and also ones to repair and recharge magic items)
  • Rebalance SlowFall to Thaumaturgy - an option to have the Slow Fall effect (Gentle Fall) belong to Thaumaturgy
  • ConjurationCreation - Multiply Provisions - If you have some of a given provision (water, rations, arrows), this effect can add to the provision through conjuration. Target: an item that the player is conjuring up. Magnitude: has an exponential effect on how much new provisions are added (strong spells will generate increasingly bigger increases).
  • ConjurationCreation - Summon Simple Item - A modified version of 'create-item'. Target: an item that the player is conjuring up. There is a chance of success - if the spell is successful, the item thus conjured will stay (not disappear after a certain amount of time).
  • Multiple Anchors For Recall - An advanced override to the Teleport effect with support for more anchors. This is the legacy Advanced Teleportation spell, a new improvement is an option Dispel Does Not Erase Anchors. For some further details, please refer to Dev Post #4.
Quality of Life

I have included a feature that allows the player to speed up ('+' key) the game if there are no enemies nearby and the PC does not have a disease ('-' key to slow back down).

Jay_H wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:13 am -snip-
The issues you raised should be fixed in 0.6. Thanks again for the support and feedback given.
Daedros wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:34 am I've noticed another problem with the new "Recall" spell introduced with this mod. Casting a "Dispel Magic" spell on self, not only removes any current magic effects running on you, it also clears any Anchor points you've set :/
I kept wondering why my Anchors kept clearing, but then noticed it was usually after i'd fight Vampires and have to dispel their Sleep off of me. I then deliberately tested that, and yeah, it's the Dispel Magic effect on self that causing Anchors to wipe.
Added the option I mentioned earlier. In order for the anchors to stay, however, you will need to have the Teleport incumbent effect on you. So, after a dispel, you should cast a Teleport spell to get the anchors back. (This is how it should work, but, I'll be honest, I haven't tested it.) Thanks again for the feedback and if anything doesn't work as intended, do let me know and I'll try to fix it.

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