[MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

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Regnier
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Regnier »

I wonder if the different interact modes can be modified? Could avoid text box?

Regnier
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am

Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Regnier »

could some enemies be made to surrender? if they see how much stronger you are. based on level or weapon skill, maybe only after you deal damage?

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Macadaynu
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Macadaynu »

Just had an idea for this, you know how Spriggan and Nymph are pretty useless skills? Make them serve different functions:

Spriggan becomes Beast Master
Recruit Rats, Bats, Tigers, Bears or any wildlife

Nymph becomes Undead
Recruit Skeletons, Liches, Vampires or any undead creatures

I could restrict some options like trading for these enemy types.

This should also nerf Etiquette quite a bit which is needed.
Last edited by Macadaynu on Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Magicono43
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Magicono43 »

Macadaynu wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:56 pm Just had an idea for this, you know how Spriggan and Nymph are pretty useless skills? Make them serve different functions:

Spriggan becomes Beast Master
Recruit Rats, Bats, Tigers, Bears or any wildlife

Nymph becomes Undead
Recruit Skeletons, Liches, Vampires or any undead creatures

This should also nerf Etiquette quite a bit which is needed.
Sounds like an interesting idea to me, but if possible a setting for it would be nice to just keep the vanilla behavior or not. Obviously depends on how annoying that would be of course.

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Macadaynu
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Macadaynu »

Magicono43 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:02 pm
Sounds like an interesting idea to me, but if possible a setting for it would be nice to just keep the vanilla behavior or not. Obviously depends on how annoying that would be of course.
Yeah I always go with options on this mod, it should be easy to make it optional.

It would be great to actually change the skill names, but not sure if that's exposed.

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Magicono43
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Magicono43 »

Macadaynu wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:06 pm
Magicono43 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:02 pm
Sounds like an interesting idea to me, but if possible a setting for it would be nice to just keep the vanilla behavior or not. Obviously depends on how annoying that would be of course.
Yeah I always go with options on this mod, it should be easy to make it optional.

It would be great to actually change the skill names, but not sure if that's exposed.
Yeah I highly doubt changing the skill names currently would be "simple" to do atm, in due time of course, lol.

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Arneb
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Arneb »

Macadaynu wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:56 pm Just had an idea for this, you know how Spriggan and Nymph are pretty useless skills? Make them serve different functions:

Spriggan becomes Beast Master
Recruit Rats, Bats, Tigers, Bears or any wildlife

Nymph becomes Undead
Recruit Skeletons, Liches, Vampires or any undead creatures

I could restrict some options like trading for these enemy types.

This should also nerf Etiquette quite a bit which is needed.
Really cool idea! But for the Spriggan I'd go with something like Wood Tongue, that would comprise Spriggan and Nymphs, plus all beasts (and in which Wood Elves would have a consistent bonus, as per subsequent lore);

For Nymph, I'd change it to something completely new, like "Abyss language", that would cover Dreugh and Lamia (and slaughterfish?). Ok, maybe underpowered, but it was just an idea.

Anyway, I like what I saw of the new LSO settings, especially the one regarding the max number of pacify tries. For my play style, totally needed.

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Macadaynu
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Macadaynu »

Arneb wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:46 pm
Really cool idea! But for the Spriggan I'd go with something like Wood Tongue, that would comprise Spriggan and Nymphs, plus all beasts (and in which Wood Elves would have a consistent bonus, as per subsequent lore);

For Nymph, I'd change it to something completely new, like "Abyss language", that would cover Dreugh and Lamia (and slaughterfish?). Ok, maybe underpowered, but it was just an idea.

Anyway, I like what I saw of the new LSO settings, especially the one regarding the max number of pacify tries. For my play style, totally needed.
Nice suggestions. I was trying to think of alternative names, but yes something like Wood Tounge, Forest Tounge, or Animal Taming would suffice. This only really matters if I can actually change the skill names, but that needs investigating.

With Abyss Language, were you suggesting that it also covers undead? As I think at least one skill line should take all undead enemies even just to nerf Etiquette, as it's very OP at the moment with Liches / Vampires etc. (Although then the undead skill may be a bit powerful, could add some downsides to it, like guards attack you if you try to take them into town or something)

These changes also mean that Centaurian starts to look a bit weak. So I thought we could potentially move some of the other misc creatures into that (potentially Nymphs, Lamias, Centaurs, Spriggans etc) and have it as some sort of mythical nature theme, can't think of a good language name for that though.

All just ideas at the moment, but the main aim is to nerf Etiquette, and make the weaker language skills more powerful so to be fun to use.

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Arneb
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Arneb »

Probably it’s not possible at the moment, but I think the best thing with powerful undead would be to keep them under Etiquette, while giving a substantial penalty to pacify them. I know that wouldn’t be much of a nerf, but in single player games like Daggerfall I usually prefer coherence than balance, and using Etiquette to pacify ancients undead is coherent from my POV.

I like the idea of keeping beasts separate from everything else: this way you could call that skill “Animal Taming” as you said, and keep something like “Wood Tongue” for Centaurians, Nymphs and Spriggans. At this point another skill slot would be freed (Centaurian), and you could use it for something else (Abyss Language? :D).

I’m obviously just theory-modding, but I really like your idea of “rearranging” language skills.

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Macadaynu
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Re: [MOD] Language Skills Overhaul

Post by Macadaynu »

I've added skills that your party members can use on command. They mostly cast a buff spell on you.

I will restrict how often they can use these, I'm thinking once per day, but I'll see if I want to make it more frequent after playtesting.

This may offer a decent alternative to non-magic playthroughs, as you can use your party member's spells instead.

Impish
Imp - Refill Party Mana

Orcish
Any Orc - Orc's Strength

Daedric
FrostDaedra - Resist Cold
FireDaedra - Resist Fire
Daedroth - tele2exit
DaedraSeducer - tele2exit
DaedraLord - tele2exit

Sylvan Tongue
Centaur - Repair all equipped items
Spriggan - Cure Disease
Nymph - Water Breathing

Harpy
Harpy - Levitate

Giantish
Giant - Troll's blood
Gargoyle - Chameleon

Dragonish
Dragonling - Gods Fire
Dragonling_Alternate - Gods Fire

Etiquette
Healer - Refill Party HP
Warrior - Refill Party Stamina
Mage - Iron Will
Spellsword - Spell Reflection
Battlemage - Spell Absorption
Sorcerer - Wisdom
Bard - Charisma
Monk - Silence
Archer - Nimbleness
Ranger - Cure Poison
Barbarian - Fortitude
Knight - Shield
Guards - Shield

Streetwise
Burglar - Open Lock
Rogue - Feet of Notorgo
Acrobat - Jumping
Thief - Open Lock
Assassin - Invisibility
Nightblade - Shadow Form

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