Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:54 pm Image

This isn't what I was talking about, but it's very similar.
Yep, that looks like it's the rotation bug. Once the PR has been merged I'll explain how to fix it. You'll probably have to rotate them into the correct position by hand and then export again. It looks very 'game-breaking' but once the code is in place, it should never rear it's ugly head again.
Arneb wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:48 am Good day sir Burt, another question:
What is the easiest way to test ingame a custom dungeon block?

Edit: one more: what's about RdbObjectList-#? Has some kind of effect gameplay wise?
The easiest way is to rename the block filename to one of the existing ones, for example M000005.RDB.json and copy that file over to the World Data folder in StreamingAssets. Then just visit a location that has that dungeon block assigned. You will probably want to drop a start marker in there or it won't work. It doesn't need to be near a door, you can place it anywhere.

RdbObjectList just comes from the Daggerfall data structure: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall_Mod ... ck_Records. They are not special in any way, not sorted either, you'll find flats and models happily together in the same list.
DFU on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
DFU Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

Yep, that looks like it's the rotation bug. Once the PR has been merged I'll explain how to fix it. You'll probably have to rotate them into the correct position by hand and then export again. It looks very 'game-breaking' but once the code is in place, it should never rear it's ugly head again.
Looking forward to it, placing object with the right rotation is half the fun.
The easiest way is to rename the block filename to one of the existing ones, for example M000005.RDB.json and copy that file over to the World Data folder in StreamingAssets. Then just visit a location that has that dungeon block assigned. You will probably want to drop a start marker in there or it won't work. It doesn't need to be near a door, you can place it anywhere.
I started modifying some standard block: I’m super-slow right now, but I feel like I’m getting the hang of it.
What I do is: I take a block i categorised for, let’s say, Human stronghold and Ruined Castle, and try to make two versions out of it more closely related to the list they are destined to. It’s a slow, but interesting work. I didn’t devised anything revolutionary to this point, but I’m working on a block that isn’t so desperately bland (big stairs), so it’s ok.

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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

Ok, a few impressions after a day working with the World editor on dungeons: it seems to have problems not only with rotation, but with scaling and duplication too. These two don't seem to get saved. Even worse, when I duplicate something, it usually get exchanged with a particular room. Object scaled on the contrary just go back to their original size.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:09 am Ok, a few impressions after a day working with the World editor on dungeons: it seems to have problems not only with rotation, but with scaling and duplication too. These two don't seem to get saved. Even worse, when I duplicate something, it usually get exchanged with a particular room. Object scaled on the contrary just go back to their original size.
You can not save scale, there is nothing in the data for that value to be stored. Hazelnut says in the World Data editing thread you shouldn't use duplicates. I know it's tempting stuff because Unity lets you use it without issues but the original data structure does not support saving it. Duplication might be possible to add but that would have to become an action in the editor itself, not the Unity way.

There is a lot of room for improvement in the editor that I would like to get to at some point but it's not an area I particularly enjoy working on and it's going to be quite the task. I really commend Hazelnut for getting this far.
DFU on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
DFU Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

It's already a relief to know it isn't anything random, but a known and documented issue. It's strange, I think I saw Cliffworms use scaling in his Twitch video when editing building interior...

I read multiple times Hazelnut's guide on editing dungeons, but I obviously need to smack my head against the duplication problem before registering it. Classic.

Without scaling I guess is a bit tricky to perfectly align dungeon section to seamlessly adhere to each other? Or setting snap to 0.64 and moving parts only while pressing Ctrl is enough?

By the way, thanks again for all the help.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:27 pm It's already a relief to know it isn't anything random, but a known and documented issue. It's strange, I think I saw Cliffworms use scaling in his Twitch video when editing building interior...

I read multiple times Hazelnut's guide on editing dungeons, but I obviously need to smack my head against the duplication problem before registering it. Classic.

Without scaling I guess is a bit tricky to perfectly align dungeon section to seamlessly adhere to each other? Or setting snap to 0.64 and moving parts only while pressing Ctrl is enough?

By the way, thanks again for all the help.
Hm, you'd have to check with Cliffworms but as far as I know, there is no way to store scaling values in the RDB and RMB json dumps at the moment since they are not present in the original game data.

You might want to check with him on settings for grids and snapping too, he has probably done the most work inside Unity with layout / placement right now. I have focused more on the technical side and made my own dungeon models.

If you find 0.64 isn't accurate enough, just divide it by 2 until you get the accuracy you want. Unity also has several snapping behaviours built in, give this section a read: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/Positio ... jects.html
DFU on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
DFU Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Cliffworms
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Cliffworms »

Arneb wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:27 pm It's already a relief to know it isn't anything random, but a known and documented issue. It's strange, I think I saw Cliffworms use scaling in his Twitch video when editing building interior...

I read multiple times Hazelnut's guide on editing dungeons, but I obviously need to smack my head against the duplication problem before registering it. Classic.

Without scaling I guess is a bit tricky to perfectly align dungeon section to seamlessly adhere to each other? Or setting snap to 0.64 and moving parts only while pressing Ctrl is enough?

By the way, thanks again for all the help.
While I don't know the technicalities behind it, scaling objects is supported in building files. It's useful to build custom furniture or other such features.

While testing the dungeon editor, I found Burt's grid snapping settings to be perfect for placing corridors. Doorways from rooms didn't snap to doorways from corridor pieces, but they were aligned together on one of the axes. Meaning with snapping it's possible to have the doorways of a corridor and rooms to face each other, requiring you to then snap the room to the corridor manually.

Maybe it's because I got used to it, but aligning corridors and rooms together by hand is fine if nothing else works. Sometimes, you can also check the XYZ values of surrounding objects and use those to quickly align your own. Like taking the height value of nearby corridor that is on the same height at the one you want to place.

P.S : Nice to see you Burt! 8-)

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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

If you find 0.64 isn't accurate enough, just divide it by 2 until you get the accuracy you want. Unity also has several snapping behaviours built in, give this section a read: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/Positio ... jects.html
Damn, I fell in love with vertex snapping, and now I find anything else slow and less precise. It's ok to abuse it or should I be on the lookout for some easily done mistake?
While I don't know the technicalities behind it, scaling objects is supported in building files. It's useful to build custom furniture or other such features.
Then I remember you using it, I'm not getting crazy :D It's singular, because I went to check a few building .RMB.json and they don't seem to have any additional parameter (compared to .RDB) to save scaling...

Ok, I'm keeping experimenting, now I'm working on a totally custom Harpy Nest block. What I found really taxing is being able to align every piece in the dungeon to perfectly match the eight doors on its sides. Is there some kind of trick for it? Or it goes down to try combination over combination until the right one is found?

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Just experiment and see what snapping method works best. There is no exact science to this, lord knows how they made them back then.

And thank you Cliffworms, I was unaware scaling was a thing now. Hazelnut must have added that when you guys worked on WDE.
DFU on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
DFU Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Hazelnut
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Hazelnut »

Scaling models in RMBs was added by UV into DFU code when he made his building editor. I didn't do the same for dungeon models when I extended the editor. Currently you would need to make a custom model with the correct scale since the layout code for RDBs has no scaling support.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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