Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

…lord knows how they made them back then.
My exact thought. Maybe that is another reason blocks are not that original in their layout.
Currently you would need to make a custom model with the correct scale since the layout code for RDBs has no scaling support.
Thanks, I think I’ll look how to do it, since with standard model sizes it gets really tricky to make them adhere to those damn exits.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:11 am Thanks, I think I’ll look how to do it, since with standard model sizes it gets really tricky to make them adhere to those damn exits.
For the most part they should all fit together, they are sort of subdivided into different sets so maybe you have a mismatch between two different sets?
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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

Very possible, since I'm trying to be "creative" with my Harpy Nest block:
Image
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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:17 pm Very possible, since I'm trying to be "creative" with my Harpy Nest block:
Another one dives into the deep-end I see :) Ralzar did the same thing. I have never really sat down to figure out the different model sets but that might be in part what you have to do to make it easier on yourself.

If you find an existing dungeon block that uses a lot of the pieces you want to use, load that into the World Data editor and take a look at how those models are arranged together.

Those octagonal passages aren't the easiest to start with I think. Also keep in mind that most models are interchangeable within a set, it's kind of hard to explain but if you open up Daggerfall Modeling and use this list https://github.com/BadLuckBurt/dfu-data ... -names.ods, the later entries are for dungeon models mostly. It's not finished but I work on filling it out when I feel like it.

For example, if you check 62400-62409 and 62500-62509 you'll see the descriptions match up so 'in theory' (emphasizing the theory bit, this is Daggerfall after all) it should be possible to just change the IDs in the RDB.json and get a different 'look'. I know this is not directly useful but it's probably good to know regardless.
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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

Reporting in just to say that I didn’t abandon the project. For now, I’m working on giving existing blocks more personality, as was my original project. This way should be easier to insert them in the list of a particular Dungeon Type. And it’s much, much easier to make them compatible with other blocks, since it is sufficient to leave their border exit where they are.

I was thinking that, while reworking standard blocks, it could be a good idea to remove more than I add, both in corridors/rooms and general furnitures. This way I achieve two advantages: make the work quicker and simplifying the general dungeon structure.

What do you (you: anyone interested in this) think?

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jayhova
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by jayhova »

On a slightly off-topic note; there are dungeons with multiple exits but not multiple entrances. I was curious if anyone had thought to address this. You could have a secret entrance. You could also have two obvious entrances. I know there has been talk of, as well as work on, doing better dungeon exteriors could multiple entrances that match the exits be part of that?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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Arneb
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by Arneb »

jayhova wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:06 pm On a slightly off-topic note; there are dungeons with multiple exits but not multiple entrances. I was curious if anyone had thought to address this. You could have a secret entrance. You could also have two obvious entrances. I know there has been talk of, as well as work on, doing better dungeon exteriors could multiple entrances that match the exits be part of that?
I'm pretty sure that, as dungeons work now, it is not possible to accomplish that: every single dungeon is tied to a single map-pixel/location, any entrance on that location will always bring to the same entrance inside said dungeon.

But what I'm stating is from word of mouth (sort of), not direct knowledge, therefore I could be very wrong.

Once we reach 1.0? From there, I think anything could be possible.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Arneb wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:20 pm I'm pretty sure that, as dungeons work now, it is not possible to accomplish that: every single dungeon is tied to a single map-pixel/location, any entrance on that location will always bring to the same entrance inside said dungeon.

But what I'm stating is from word of mouth (sort of), not direct knowledge, therefore I could be very wrong.

Once we reach 1.0? From there, I think anything could be possible.
You are in fact very right :)

A dungeon can only have one block assigned as a starting block, you will always enter there no matter what door you use on the outside. The exits in other blocks do allow you to leave the dungeon but that's about it.

In theory it's perfectly possible, if the dungeon exterior layouts matched up to the blocks used (comparable to most buildings in Daggerfall), some logic can determine which entrance is used and where to place the player in the dungeon / exterior. The same as the building / interior behaviour really.

It does present a challenge, a dungeon interior RDB block is half the width and length of an exterior RMB block so you can't recreate the dungeon layout 1-to-1 in the exterior using the RMB blocks as they are now. That can be solved though.
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jayhova
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by jayhova »

BadLuckBurt wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:43 pm
Arneb wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:20 pm I'm pretty sure that, as dungeons work now, it is not possible to accomplish that: every single dungeon is tied to a single map-pixel/location, any entrance on that location will always bring to the same entrance inside said dungeon.

But what I'm stating is from word of mouth (sort of), not direct knowledge, therefore I could be very wrong.

Once we reach 1.0? From there, I think anything could be possible.
A dungeon can only have one block assigned as a starting block, you will always enter there no matter what door you use on the outside. The exits in other blocks do allow you to leave the dungeon but that's about it.
Other buildings in Daggerfall obviously already allow multiple entrances and exits. Are dungeons not really large buildings? is it possible to define a block as a separate entity with an entrance/exit?

This has got me to thinking. If you could redefine where a door links to as part of the quest system you could have a very strange quest where entering a second-floor door on a particular building between midnight and 1 am takes you to a certain dungeon.

Thinking about that causes me to think about doors teleporting etc. What's to stop you from redefining a door to take you to a specific place say at an object near the entrance to the dungeon? Is it not possible to have teleporters that take you outside the dungeon?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Mod Idea - Dungeon Blocks categorised and expanded

Post by BadLuckBurt »

jayhova wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:12 pm Other buildings in Daggerfall obviously already allow multiple entrances and exits. Are dungeons not really large buildings? is it possible to define a block as a separate entity with an entrance/exit?

This has got me to thinking. If you could redefine where a door links to as part of the quest system you could have a very strange quest where entering a second-floor door on a particular building between midnight and 1 am takes you to a certain dungeon.

Thinking about that causes me to think about doors teleporting etc. What's to stop you from redefining a door to take you to a specific place say at an object near the entrance to the dungeon? Is it not possible to have teleporters that take you outside the dungeon?
Dungeon blocks use a different data structure and are always a fixed size. Interiors are all defined in the RMB block data and don't have a fixed size, most interiors fit their exterior though as Macadaynu's Transparent Windows mod shows. Building entrances in non-dungeon locations are all defined on a building level, Daggerfall Unity actually searches for the closest door when you exit a building, the doors are not 'linked', it just works because for once, Bethesda tried their best to match exterior to interior.

As for teleporting doors, alternate destinations etc., it's something you could do in a mod but not DFU itself. The classic actions in a dungeon block (levers, elevators, etc.) are confined to the block itself.
DFU on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
DFU Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
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