Does Daggerfall make other open worlds seem fake?

[Werewolf]

After Daggerfall going back and playing Morrowind feels off. It doesn’t matter that Morrowind has a beautiful world, full of unique monsters and a fantastic atmosphere, it’s so freaking tiny it all feels fake. You walk slow in Morrowind because Vvardenfell is so insanely condensed that if you’d walk normally you’d realize how tiny it is, and how the mountains and hills help cover up how tiny it is as well. Just become a werewolf where you get a fast running speed and you’ll cross the entire map in no time. You go to the island of Solstheim and holy crap it is so awfully small. It has a cool lore with wolves and bears and snow and a castle but it is just so, so small it doesn’t matter. In lore Solstheim is supposed to be a “large island” and on official maps it looks to be the size of a region in Daggerfall yet in game it is so insanely small. Daggerfall really had a memorable atmosphere and lore after the admittedly generic setting of Daggerfall but the map is so condensed that it makes it pointless.

Could you imagine if Vvardenfell was like Daggerfall? Imagine an uncondensed representation with massive ashlands you could get lost in, and imagine going to Red Mountain being a long journey instead of a slow walking speed and fog covering up how small it all is. Imagine if the mountains in Morrowind were REAL mountains like the mountains in Daggerfall Unity, not glorified hills that pretend to be mountains aided by a slow player speed. Imagine the wilderness in Solstheim being hundreds of square miles of dangerous icy wilderness filled with bears and wolves.

Morrowind had an amazing atmosphere but after Daggerfall it’s hard to appreciate it because everything is so SMALL. Small map, “wilderness” areas that are more condensed then the countryside in GTA (a game that takes place in modern times!) and “cities” that are no bigger then a medium sized town in Daggerfall. Morrowind’s map in game is so pathetically small that you’re better off reading the lore and looking at the art then actually playing the game to soak it in.

Thanks for ruining Morrowind for me Daggerfall! I’ve gotten so spoiled by Daggerfall that I’m reluctant to even think about Skyrim unless I want to feel nauseous!

[Metalhead324]

For me, not really. Daggerfall is great in its own right, but it has the "super wide but very shallow" problem (of course, mods can reduce this problem and some have already done so). I can still very much enjoy Skyrim because its world is varied, it doesn't feel fake to me at all - or at the very least, it does the job well enough for me within the context of a video game. Not sure about Morrowind, as last time I tried booting that up, some aspects really felt so aged to me I couldn't go for very long. I've been absolutely loving Horizon Forbidden West on my PS5, and Kingdoms of Amalur and Dragon's Dogma on my Steam Deck.

[Werewolf]

For me, not really. Daggerfall is great in its own right, but it has the "super wide but very shallow" problem (of course, mods can reduce this problem and some have already done so). I can still very much enjoy Skyrim because its world is varied, it doesn't feel fake to me at all - or at the very least, it does the job well enough for me within the context of a video game. Not sure about Morrowind, as last time I tried booting that up, some aspects really felt so aged to me I couldn't go for very long. I've been absolutely loving Horizon Forbidden West on my PS5, and Kingdoms of Amalur and Dragon's Dogma on my Steam Deck.

Daggerfall Unity mods do help make the world more detailed. As time goes on and there are bigger mods it’ll make other Elder Scrolls games maps less impressive. Also some regions in Daggerfall have more towns then Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim combined. Being able to settle in a single town for a while and then knowing there’s thousands more is a great feeling you can only get in Daggerfall. Playing Morrowind after Daggerfall makes Morrowind’s map feel so tiny and fake

[Metalhead324]

Daggerfall definitely does offer something unique you won't get in other ES games, or really other open world games. That's definitely true, and as I said, mods are going to help fix some of its weaknesses and already are. I'm just saying that for me, Daggerfall doesn't affect my enjoyment of other open world games nor make their worlds feel fake. I play Daggerfall for what Daggerfall offers. I play other open world games for whatever they happen to offer that Daggerfall doesn't.

[Antonius]

I do think Daggerfall is the best of TES games, mainly because it has the best story by far and the most interesting setting. Cleaning up the issues and bugs only makes it even better. I will say though, I loved Morrowind also, and to me it was the last great game in the series, because of the hand crafted nature. The auto scaling enemies and other nonsense that has come in after that ruined the open world nature to me. I loved the entire place being designed and items, places, monsters all being where and what they are regardless of your level etc. Stealing a glowing item on the Dren Plantation in morrowind after buffing to the gills and running like hell is still memorable for me. I think Daggerfall and Morrowind both serve their unique great purposes though.

[Werewolf]

I do think Daggerfall is the best of TES games, mainly because it has the best story by far and the most interesting setting. Cleaning up the issues and bugs only makes it even better. I will say though, I loved Morrowind also, and to me it was the last great game in the series, because of the hand crafted nature. The auto scaling enemies and other nonsense that has come in after that ruined the open world nature to me. I loved the entire place being designed and items, places, monsters all being where and what they are regardless of your level etc. Stealing a glowing item on the Dren Plantation in morrowind after buffing to the gills and running like hell is still memorable for me. I think Daggerfall and Morrowind both serve their unique great purposes though.

Morrowind, while less ambitious then the visionary Daggerfall, was still highly ambitious and had an amazing atmosphere and character. It’s just the world is insanely condensed but otherwise it’s a great RPG with a ton of character. Future games though…

[jayhova]

I played Arena when it came out. I played Daggerfall obsessively when it came out. Daggerfall was a huge leap forward from my perspective because you could actually move from one city to the next in a real world. Of course, it was super buggy and I never dreamed anyone would fix that. Then came Redguard. It was really a demonstrator for the 'let's make everything by hand' concept. Morrowind finally came out years after Daggerfall and it was so small.

Yes, it did lack the verisimilitude that I wanted out of an ES game. What I wanted was a procedurally generated game with hand tweaking. I liked the farms around the cities in Arena. You still do not see that in Daggerfall.

[Werewolf]

I played Arena when it came out. I played Daggerfall obsessively when it came out. Daggerfall was a huge leap forward from my perspective because you could actually move from one city to the next in a real world. Of course, it was super buggy and I never dreamed anyone would fix that. Then came Redguard. It was really a demonstrator for the 'let's make everything by hand' concept. Morrowind finally came out years after Daggerfall and it was so small.

Yes, it did lack the verisimilitude that I wanted out of an ES game. What I wanted was a procedurally generated game with hand tweaking. I liked the farms around the cities in Arena. You still do not see that in Daggerfall.

I theorize that Daggerfall had an inferior countryside and dungeon design partly because the 3D engine was newer tech and it was more challenging to create the procedural generation tech with the 3D engine.

Imagine being an Elder Scrolls fan in the late 90s and waiting eagerly for the Daggerfall successor and wondering about how big it’ll be and then Morrowind ends up being a puddle compared to Daggerfall

[jayhova]

Imagine being an Elder Scrolls fan in the late 90s and waiting eagerly for the Daggerfall successor and wondering about how big it’ll be and then Morrowind ends up being a puddle compared to Daggerfall

I don't have to imagine; I lived it.

[Werewolf]

Imagine being an Elder Scrolls fan in the late 90s and waiting eagerly for the Daggerfall successor and wondering about how big it’ll be and then Morrowind ends up being a puddle compared to Daggerfall

I don't have to imagine; I lived it.

How was the reaction to Morrowind amongst hardcore Elder Scrolls fans back then? Daggerfall Unity made me realize just how less ambitious Morrowind was but how did people react back then? After Daggerfall Unity I find Morrowind to be unambitious and dumbed down in order to be more commercial. The fact that people still consider Morrowind to be large and complex and highly ambitious really shows just how dumbed down the series has gotten