Smaller dungeons by default

Discuss Daggerfall Unity and Daggerfall Tools for Unity.
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Werewolf
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Smaller dungeons by default

Post by Werewolf »

Opinion: smaller dungeons should be enabled by default. Let’s be honest, the default sized dungeons are too big for even veteran players. Smaller dungeons make the game more popular

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pango
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Re: Daggerfall Unity 0.14.2 Beta [Pre-release]

Post by pango »

Werewolf wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:12 am Opinion: smaller dungeons should be enabled by default.
I'm not sure it's the right place for such debate, but I disagree. I'm okay with this option to be featured on the main launcher screen if that's something that would help many players, but Daggerfall with smaller dungeons plays like a different game so being the default wouldn't match Daggerfall Unity mission to stay close to original game's design.
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Arneb
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Re: Daggerfall Unity 0.14.2 Beta [Pre-release]

Post by Arneb »

Werewolf wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:12 am Opinion: smaller dungeons should be enabled by default. Let’s be honest, the default sized dungeons are too big for even veteran players. Smaller dungeons make the game more popular
I must add that default sized dungeon being too big for veteran players isn’t accurate at all, I’m not as veteran as a few players around here and I like my dungeons as big as they get. Plus, more popular doesn’t equal better.

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Ralzar
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Re: Daggerfall Unity 0.14.2 Beta [Pre-release]

Post by Ralzar »

Agreed. While I have considered turning on smaller dungeons a couple of times I have yet to do so. Part of the danger and excitement of Daggerfall dungeon crawling is having no idea how much of a problem the dungeon is going to be. Besides, the worst dungeons of them all are the main quest dungeons (I'm looking at you, Wayrest) which the smaller dungeons options does nothing for.

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Jay_H
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by Jay_H »

I've split this topic from the release thread, to make sure that one keeps its purpose ;)

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by BadLuckBurt »

No, it gives every larger dungeon that cross layout which is boring and way too easy. People are too eager to 'win' at everything when the Daggerfall manual recommended to accept mistakes and failures as part of the experience.

Unforgiving dungeon labyrinths are just part of Daggerfall and disabling them by default is watering down the experience
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dutchovenfarts
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by dutchovenfarts »

nah shouldn't be default, though could be an option that prompts about it on very first startup for new players to be aware of it.

larger dungeons are a drag for low level and low rank quests, where the rewards almost never warrant the time spent. this is why you see way more often than not (and also suggested by veteren players) for players to skip any dungeon crawling and go for the easy quests that can be done in town or in the same building, it's even easier with being able to choose the exact quest you want in DFU.
larger dungeons also expose more of the blocks right away, so dungeon fatigue sets in sooner. feels about as bad as playing oblivion.

on the other hand, smaller dungeons are a little too easy for stronger characters. past level 15, almost any character class will stomp through a dungeon with little resistance (until the mid 20's where NPC's become a bore to fight, like in oblivion).

good thing it's an option that can be switched during a playthrough!

Vorzak
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by Vorzak »

Werewolf wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:12 am Opinion: smaller dungeons should be enabled by default. Let’s be honest, the default sized dungeons are too big for even veteran players. Smaller dungeons make the game more popular
Default reduced size of dungeons because they are “too big” and “too difficult” for all players??

Maybe by default lets reduce the size of Daggerfall’s world to ‘themepark’ scale similar to later games like Morrowind, for no other reason than to make game “easier,” appealing to more players and that the vast wilderness in this game is "pointless."

Besides, like Bethesda discovered after releasing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, that condensing the size of everything and cheapen gameplay makes game Popular and that's important! Lol
(sarcasm)

But seriously, smaller dungeons diminish the design of the game, its purpose and all challenge. It’s like a ‘cheat mode’ of sorts, in my opinion. Having it on by default would be harmful overall. Additional features and modifications are always good for players who want them, but let’s leave them as they are, optional, so it doesn’t undermine the original work. Altering a game like Daggerfall to that extent for the sake of “popularity” is a bad mentality. I’m so very thankful Interkarma’s consistent vision for DFU was to preserve this game with the intent of the original developers close in mind.

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Werewolf
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by Werewolf »

Vorzak wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:31 pm
Werewolf wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:12 am Opinion: smaller dungeons should be enabled by default. Let’s be honest, the default sized dungeons are too big for even veteran players. Smaller dungeons make the game more popular
Default reduced size of dungeons because they are “too big” and “too difficult” for all players??

Maybe by default lets reduce the size of Daggerfall’s world to ‘themepark’ scale similar to later games like Morrowind, for no other reason than to make game “easier,” appealing to more players and that the vast wilderness in this game is "pointless."

Besides, like Bethesda discovered after releasing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, that condensing the size of everything and cheapen gameplay makes game Popular and that's important! Lol
(sarcasm)

But seriously, smaller dungeons diminish the design of the game, its purpose and all challenge. It’s like a ‘cheat mode’ of sorts, in my opinion. Having it on by default would be harmful overall. Additional features and modifications are always good for players who want them, but let’s leave them as they are, optional, so it doesn’t undermine the original work. Altering a game like Daggerfall to that extent for the sake of “popularity” is a bad mentality. I’m so very thankful Interkarma’s consistent vision for DFU was to preserve this game with the intent of the original developers close in mind.
Reducing the size of the Daggerfall dungeons would actually make it more realistic. Daggerfall’s insanely large dungeons make zero logical sense whatsoever. Arena actually had large dungeons that felt like they were once actual places that were logically built. I guess my complaints about Daggerfall’s dungeons are the design and not just the size . Daggerfall’s dungeons went so overboard with being 3D that they felt like man-made caves. If someone could make a dungeon generator that would make the dungeons more logical then I’d actually welcome large dungeons. Also Daggerfall’s dungeons don’t even feel like real places like in Arena because they are just random blocks thrown together. I’d love to see castles and fortresses that actual resemble such like in Arena. In Arena the final dungeon that I believe is the former king’s castle actually had a hallway and fancy rooms, etc and you’d travel down below it and it’d slowly get less luxurious as you’d go down. Imagine castle dungeons in Daggerfall being like that instead of being nothing like a castle like they are now

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pango
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Re: Smaller dungeons by default

Post by pango »

Well, the discussion about whether smaller dungeons should be the default seems to be over.
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