Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Element Change

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Bug's Life
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Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Element Change

Post by Bug's Life »

Should the "Spider Bite" spell be reclassified as a physical attack Poison element Spell in order to fix a possible mechanical/lore bug design flaw and change relevant immunities to its effect? Currently (AFAIK) the Spider Bite spell is cast by Spider/Giant Scorpions to induce Paralysis and does not work against Magic Immunity/Resistance or Paralysis Immunity/Resistance.

I propose the effect be transferred via physical attack similar to Humanoids with poisoned weapons (including or excluding damage) Spider Bite spell element be changed to Poison. The enemies in question are not Magically gifted in nature, nor are they intelligent enough to learn [Magic] spells. They are wild animals with Venomous fangs/stingers.

Implementing Spider Bite as such was likely due to technical limitations reasons rather than intent. If this can be reasonably accomplished now, it could be considered a bug design fix. Magic Immunity would be removed, but should Poison Immunity now work alongside Paralysis Immunity to resist the effect? Venom aka Poison is obviously the effect's intended transmission.

Proposed Changes
  • Reimplement Spider Bite as a physical attack instead of a spell (with or without damage)
  • Switch Spider Bite's Spell element from Magic to Poison
  • Remove Magic Immunity/Resistance interaction
  • (Possibly) Add Poison Immunity/Resistance interaction
  • Paralysis Immunity/Resistance would remain as is
This potential issue has been mentioned a few times on the forum and I believe should be considered. Thanks for all your hard work on this fantastic project!

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Last edited by Bug's Life on Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:26 pm, edited 16 times in total.

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Interkarma
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by Interkarma »

Welcome to the forums. :)

Spider's Bite is indeed the spell used by spiders and scorpions to paralyse the player. It's a standard Paralysis effect spell, not a physical attack. There's nothing to indicate this was a technical limitation or a bug.

It would be a very fundamental change to rework this, especially at this stage where Daggerfall Unity is effectively complete and no unscheduled changes will be made.

Since this is more of a DFU conversation than a support issue, I'll move this into General to open up the discussion to everyone.

Bug's Life
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by Bug's Life »

Thanks.
Last edited by Bug's Life on Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

nicksta1310
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by nicksta1310 »

I believe that you're describing a design flaw rather than a bug or technical limitation. The original developers could have chosen to assign a poisonous weapon to the creatures. They could also have chosen to make Spider's Bite a Destruction spell with a Poison element. There are quite a few decisions like this in the game that raise eyebrows, but that's for the modders to address.

Bug's Life
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by Bug's Life »

nicksta1310 wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:27 am I believe that you're describing a design flaw rather than a bug or technical limitation. The original developers could have chosen to assign a poisonous weapon to the creatures. They could also have chosen to make Spider's Bite a Destruction spell with a Poison element. There are quite a few decisions like this in the game that raise eyebrows, but that's for the modders to address.
Edited the topic post but kept the original context as strikethrough text. Good feedback, thanks.

Bug's Life
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by Bug's Life »

I came up with a simpler solution: change Spider Bite's Spell element to Poison. Edited original post with Strikethrough text.
Last edited by Bug's Life on Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jay_H
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Spell or Attack?

Post by Jay_H »

nicksta1310 wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:27 am that's for the modders to address.
I agree with this conclusion, and will move this to Modding General :)

Bug's Life
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Re: Spider/Giant Scorpion's Bite: Element Change & Exploit Fix

Post by Bug's Life »

Thanks.

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